In this episode, we tackle the intricate balance of parenting and maintaining a strong marriage. Drawing from personal experiences, we discuss transitioning our kids to their own bed, prioritizing 'couch time' for marital bonds, and the importance of presenting a united front against manipulation. With insights on discipline, character-building, and the delicate balance of being both a parent and a friend, we navigate the challenging yet rewarding journey of raising responsible, spiritually grounded adults. Join us as we unravel the beauty of parenting.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
We're Sean and Candace Tambagahan and this is the Mission of Marriage Podcast! Have you ever been at a crossroads in your marriage, wondering if there's any hope for restoration? We've walked through some rocky patches ourselves. Our marital journey has taught us about perseverance, grace, and the infinite love of God. And it's these lessons we strive to share with you, to help navigate the trials and tribulations of marriage. We don't claim to have all the answers, but we do have some tools and insights that might just help you on your journey.
In this episode, we tackle the intricate balance of parenting and maintaining a strong marriage. Drawing from personal experiences, we discuss transitioning our kids to their own bed, prioritizing 'couch time' for marital bonds, and the importance of presenting a united front against manipulation. With insights on discipline, character-building, and the delicate balance of being both a parent and a friend, we navigate the challenging yet rewarding journey of raising responsible, spiritually grounded adults. Join us as we unravel the beauty of parenting.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
We're Sean and Candace Tambagahan and this is the Mission of Marriage Podcast! Have you ever been at a crossroads in your marriage, wondering if there's any hope for restoration? We've walked through some rocky patches ourselves. Our marital journey has taught us about perseverance, grace, and the infinite love of God. And it's these lessons we strive to share with you, to help navigate the trials and tribulations of marriage. We don't claim to have all the answers, but we do have some tools and insights that might just help you on your journey.
My name is Sean, I'm Candice and this is the mission of Marriage Podcast.
Speaker 2:We talk about a Christian perspective on having a better marriage. You ready? Yeah, we're ready. Welcome episode 9 of the Mission of Marriage Podcast. I'm your host, Sean Tombaccon, and.
Speaker 1:I'm Candice.
Speaker 2:Babe, how you doing. Good, good Are you doing good, because you weren't just saying you were good.
Speaker 1:three seconds ago I was tired, but I don't know what's going on with me. Maybe I'm coming down with a cold, maybe possibly the cold is going down. I'm feeling really lethargic and I had tea and this is a sign of COVID, anyways.
Speaker 2:So Caleb hopefully she doesn't have COVID in getting it. Well, it's just me and her here and then Caleb. But who cares about Caleb?
Speaker 1:He doesn't count, he's behind the camera.
Speaker 2:Babe, what are we talking about today? This is episode 9. And so this is really. We didn't want this to be a forever podcast. We wanted to provide a resource to the church and we don't want to just go in perpetuity and just talk about stuff forever.
Speaker 1:So this is potentially our last. This is our last one, and we're talking about parenting, parenting, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so we might do one more or a couple more bonus episodes if it is so demanded, If maybe people are asking questions and Well, I thought that was like a for sure thing.
Speaker 1:We're going to do a Q&A after. Well, if nobody asks a question, that'll be a really short episode.
Speaker 2:So, and if they don't ask questions, that means we've exhausted everything? No, so this will be our last official episode and we will do another follow up for Q&A, for those who have questions on any of the topics or maybe a topic we haven't covered yet, but today we did want to talk about parenting. What's interesting and I forget when this came to me, I had this just epiphany, because everybody I talked to has a narrative of their relationship with their parents growing up. Right, you talk to your friends, the people you go to church with, if you ever have these deep conversations. People have mommy and daddy issues, people have issues with their parents. Everybody has a narrative of their relationship with their parents and I wonder, I'm like, what is the narrative my kids are developing?
Speaker 1:right now. I should have asked them. I asked them frequently.
Speaker 2:And I put them on the spot with a gun to their head. What do you think about my parenting? No, but the reality is that every kid is going to have their own story one day, their own story, and so I think about that often, Like what is my kid's story going to be about our parenting? What do you think it's going to be Like at this moment?
Speaker 1:I think it's going to be good. I mean, we're not perfect.
Speaker 2:Everybody's biased, everybody with mommy and daddy issues. We're not perfect. I think their parents thought like our kids think we're great. No, no, you don't think so. They probably knew they sucked no they probably knew they sucked. Okay.
Speaker 1:No, I think that it's good, though I think that you know we're not perfect and we make it very clear to our kids that we are not perfect. We pray all the time like Lord, please shield them from all my wrongdoings.
Speaker 2:We need the grace of God, like, of course, there's no such thing as a perfect parent. Yeah, but we've also not only met people that have like terrible parenting experiences, but we've met people who are like they can't speak highly enough of their parents.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I really love. I don't know if you have anybody in mind, but for me I'm particularly thinking of Pastor Coleman, my pastor, who I got saved under his ministry, trained disciples, sent out, planted a church from the word. But he talks about his dad like he is his hero. Yeah, and he's like I love my dad. His dad calls him every Sunday, prays for him before church. You know, deidre JR's wife thinks that you know hurt. His dad walks on water and I'm like man, that's so awesome to have someone that speaks so highly of their parents and we have other people that have had similar stories, and so you know, I really think about that, take it to heart.
Speaker 2:And and Candice and I've had these conversations a lot about our parenting, and so what's? What's one thing that we have a series of different categories and topics that we want to cover when it comes to parenting. This is not going to be like the final, exhaustive, authoritative word on it, but these are just some of the things that have come to our mind. So what's the? I'll give you like a tee up our first category.
Speaker 1:Um, so marriage over parenting. So prioritizing the marriage, because I see so many times where the kids are the center and the parents just kind of start dividing over time and the kids become their everything and then when they leave it's like, uh, we have no connection now and it's all been about the kids this whole time and we've never we haven't connected physically, emotionally, relationally and so long because it's always been about the kids. And so prioritizing the marriage throughout you raising your kids so that that connection stays strong.
Speaker 2:It's funny because this is like the first category of our parenting talk, and the first category is prioritize your marriage over your parenting. And we learned this from the Bible study. Actually, we went to Ted and Sandy's house. It was called growing kids God's way and, um, it was just a really good biblical picture of like here's. You know, in the beginning, adam and Eve they were before he didn't. He could have created a whole family unit simultaneously, but he created the marriage union first and from that, from the fruit of that love, was the children that were born from that. And so the year it's going to be you and your spouse before you have kids, ideally, and it's going to be you and your spouse after your kids leave the house. And one of the the mottos that was said in that that always really stuck to me and it really helped me was the most loving thing a parent can do, or the best gift a parent can give to their kids is the safety and security of knowing that Mom and dad love each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so our kids um. I think they know.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, they've been raised up with us like, hey, it's mom and dad time, we're going to get into that. But or, um, you know we're going on a date. They know we go out to dinner without them. They are not always going to be with us when we do certain things and they have been raised up like that so they're okay. It's not like what you're doing what without us, like they don't feel that way just because it's been in our marriage since the beginning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so in, of course, we, when we talk about, um, I think, connecting together in our marriage, we talked about doing things with our kids as well. It's not like, oh, me and Candice are just out doing our own thing, uh, like that's that could be. Someone's narrative is like I don't know where mom and dad were. They loved each other, but we were just left alone.
Speaker 1:It's like, no, we're going to get into that too, yeah.
Speaker 2:How to have a relationship with your kids. That's one of the categories, but we're. But the very first category is marriage over parenting, because that it's going to be you guys before the kids are in the picture. It's going to be you guys after the kids leave the house. Some marriages, like Candice was saying, it's all contingent, the only reason why they're together is for the kids and it's like and those are the most unhealthy households typically because mom and dad hate each other. They're at each other's throat, they're, or they don't speak to one another. But we're here for the kids.
Speaker 2:It's like well the best thing you could give your kids is the safety and security knowing that mom and dad love each other. Yep, and so what are some of those things that we have done intentionally to prioritize our marriage over parenting?
Speaker 1:So when well, it started with, when Jet was little, he was still sleeping in our bed with us and he was. He was probably closer to two, right, I can't remember. If you remember, I think he was two.
Speaker 2:He had to have been at least 18 months. Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1:So he was still sleeping with us and so we weren't really connecting that much physically or even like cause. When we go to bed or into the room or anything, it was more of like we would also talk, we would have those conversations and stuff. And so with Jet being in there, it was like, oh no, we can't talk, he's sleeping and we can't, you know, tiptoe around and this kid, you know, and so I was more of like we could put in.
Speaker 2:you know, granted, everybody's going to have their own different situations, sometimes you don't have the benefit of having multiple rooms or whatever. But we had another room. You know, sometimes you might have the child living or sleeping in your living room and the pack and play, if that's all, you have just a master bedroom. But that alone time between husband and wife, not only intimately physically but also emotionally, to be able to connect, that was lacking for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what happened? We had a friend of ours. He's he's so blunt, I love him. He was just like hey, man, this is not okay. And he just came to me and he's like can't just know, like you need to. And then so he ended up talking to me and he's like you need to get him out of your bed, like you need to put him in his room. So this week you're going to do this and I was like thank you.
Speaker 2:He wasn't just like doing this on my behalf.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:And I was like I'm really concerned brother that was noticing like oh, you have your kids sleeping, like he didn't go into detail. But you know, if your kids sleep in their bed, you're not having sex. You're not talking like you guys ought to, you're not connecting at the level that you should be and and that's so important, and the fear like you were against it, you're like I don't want to do that, and I think a lot of women are like that.
Speaker 1:Well, I think I didn't want to do it till he talked to me and I was like you know what you're right, like this is not okay. This is a week I made the transition and it was. It was hard. I it took probably the whole week. It took a for sure, a few nights.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's in hindsight. You're like, oh, it was just a week, but that's a week of a of a crying baby who's used to sleeping in your bed and you just want to.
Speaker 1:Well, he was a toddler at this time now, you know, but yeah, so it was crying and I had to kind of wean him into his bed and but once we got him fully there it was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:It's amazing. Yeah, it changed everything. It was like, oh my gosh, why didn't we do this sooner?
Speaker 1:So we did it with the other two.
Speaker 2:The other two.
Speaker 1:We started them in their room as early as they could and they slept fine and it was great and we didn't have that hard time of having to transition them.
Speaker 1:The other thing we do is we call it couch time, and it's not always on the couch, but it's just a time that me and Sean are connecting. We'll be sitting in the backyard just talking, we're on the couch talking or at the dining table, wherever it is, and if the kids are coming in it's like whoa, hold on. This is me and Dad time right now. We will talk to you guys in a little bit. So go play, go entertain yourself. When they're toddlers, we put on a movie or whatever we had to do, and we made sure that we connected.
Speaker 2:You Don't have to be on a couch. Sometimes it is on a couch, sometimes for us it's in our bed. You know the door is open or whatever. But the kids, they can't just barge in and like, interrupt us, like, hey, no, no, we're talking, this is mom and dad time, or we're in the backyard, and so, again, we have the times to hang out with the kids, and so they get love, they get affection, but we also have the time set aside for just us, and when it's us time it's not time to be bothered or interrupted. Yeah, what's another thing?
Speaker 1:So having a unified voice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so marriage over parenting. So a lot of times and or a we're not perfect at this, because the a lot of times kids will pit one parent up against the other. So, like I'm gonna ask, mom and kids are manipulative. I'm gonna ask mom or I'm not gonna ask mom, because I already know what she's gonna say I'm gonna ask dad. Or I'm not gonna ask dad, I'm just gonna go straight to mom, and so we get caught up in that sometimes where they'll ask him.
Speaker 1:And yeah, and then they'll come to me and he's already said no and I'm like, yeah, I don't care. And then I find out he said no. I'm like, well then why'd you ask me if your dad said no is? My response, Like if your dad said no, then it's no. You know what I mean? I don't they get in trouble for that. Yeah, they're not trouble for that.
Speaker 2:It's. It's not good cop versus bad cop, it's not okay. I'm gonna go to mom because she's the nurturer and dad's the disciplinarian, or vice versa, whatever your household might be, canis and I have a unified voice when it comes to our parenting, and so our kids are. Know that we're gonna be on the same page. And if they come to me and they're like well, mom said this, well, why even?
Speaker 1:it was actually funny, though, because the other day they asked one of the kids asked us something of the same exact time and you said no and I said yes at the same exact time, and then we looked at each other and then he's like, well, I guess, yeah, I guess I said no for no reason.
Speaker 2:My default answer is no.
Speaker 1:No, whatever you want, no. So it's actually kind of funny because at the same time and then, and then I think it was chase, because he's like mom said yes and then he like took off running yes probably yeah.
Speaker 2:So okay, marriage overpainter. I think we're good on that. Yeah, yeah, okay. So now let's talk about discipline. So I Got a couple passages here that I want to read.
Speaker 2:So, proverbs 29, 17 discipline your children and they will give you peace of mind and will make your heart glad. Proverbs 23, 13 through 14 says don't fail to discipline your children, and a lot of people think discipline means just like okay, well, I'm going to tell them no or say you're naughty, or just go in the corner or take something away. That is a form of discipline. But it says the rod of punishment won't kill them. So like, don't be afraid of smacking your kid on the butt they got a little cushion back there for a reason. The rod of punishment won't kill them. No, you got to take that with the greatest all, because some of you guys are probably trying to kill your kids with Violence and so, no, it won't kill them.
Speaker 2:Physical discipline may well save them from death. So it's not just telling them no, you're naughty, putting them in a timeout, taking away a thing like sometimes you need to get out the rod of discipline. I'm not talking about pulling out a stick, I'm talking about whacking them on the butt. You know it's spanking, spanking them. Sometimes there is a penalty that is is worthy of spanking. But what are some points in this on discipline?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so make sure the punishment fits the crime. So I'm not going to spank them over everything. You know Spanking is like the last resort. So spanking is like you have been warned multiple times. You are just completely rebelling right now and this now you're gonna get a spanking.
Speaker 1:You know yeah and so when they were little, you know everybody's like, oh, they don't know what they're doing. When, yes, they do, yeah, yeah, and so I would, you know, Swat their hand barely, you know, like some form of like we're getting in trouble for this one?
Speaker 2:No, we're not. I.
Speaker 1:Would swap their hand very lightly, you know, as they progressed in age depend that depended on. You know the severity of it. Then I went to spanking on the butt, you know a little bit harder.
Speaker 2:People don't spank now, it's just like a thing to where they go. That's child abuse. If you spank your kid and no.
Speaker 1:It's child abuse if you're you're like, you're like hitting your kid as hard as you can, yeah, and you know, leaving marks and stuff. No, there's a form of a swat that is like oh okay, I'm not supposed to do this, it's a jolt, it's not supposed to be like super you know. Yeah, you know harming or anything.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I just want to like hey, you need help spanking your kids, just call me and I will spank your bad children. So many of you guys need to spank your bad kids. No, but seriously, the punishment fitting the crime is huge when I think about the way God disciplines me. He doesn't just destroy me every time right, and so sometimes it's a warning, sometimes it's a rebuke, sometimes it's a stern warning.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes it's like man it's, there's some sort of thing I get myself into. It's humiliating to where I have to get embarrassed because I have been disciplined, and sometimes God has to spank me you know, and in his own way.
Speaker 2:But the same thing is like the punishment fits the crime. You, your kids, if they're not trained, if they're not listening, you're giving them very clear boundaries, you're asserting yourself, and they've gotten to that level, to where like, hey, now it's time, now you know. And so, yeah, making sure the punishment fits crime, and we put here, not counting to three. That always drives me Insane.
Speaker 1:So you're pretty much saying okay, until I get to three, you can continue to disobey me. Okay, you got one second to disobey and go ahead. Two, okay, three, all right now, I'm serious, it is no no, just got to one boom.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, no.
Speaker 1:No, well, and I know we're gonna get into this, but it's you know you need there and we're gonna get into the communication point totally yeah so fitting the crime.
Speaker 1:The kids actually need to know what is okay and what's not. Before you just go to disciplining, there needs to be explanation with it. We put I put scripture with it, like, hey, you shouldn't do this, this is what the scripture says about it, sometime, if it's applicable it's not always and then explaining the kids, they're growing up understanding oh okay, the Bible says not to do this, or I should do this a certain different way or whatever, and so I'm very much aware of what my mom has talked to me about and you know it's clear. So it's not like, well, I didn't know.
Speaker 1:I was supposed to do that.
Speaker 2:So again, it's, it's so and it starts so verbally, don't do that. And if they start to play like, don't do that, with a warning, and then whatever the warning is, just make sure you follow through. You don't have to count to three, you don't have to go against your word. You want to make sure you set a standard and you follow through with whatever it is you say you're gonna do, whatever the repercussions are of their disobedience. And and in light of that, proverbs 22, 15 says a youngster's heart, the child's heart, is filled with foolishness, but physical discipline will drive it far away. And so Kids. They are manipulative.
Speaker 2:The this idea that children are just these innocent little angels and creatures and and they just, you know that they're only a product of their environment. That is not correct. We have a nature, we have a sinful nature. That one of the reasons why I believe in total depravity and the sinfulness of all humankind is because I can look at children who I don't have to teach them how to lie, I don't have to teach them how to steal, how to be disobedient and disrespectful. They naturally tend to do those things and they need to be disciplined out of those things. And so what it says in Proverbs 22, 15 is that a youngster's heart is filled with foolishness, like that's the natural inclination. Inclination of a child's heart is foolishness, and Discipline will drive that foolishness away, and so, in light of that, it's important to understand what you're actually Disciplining. Sometimes people are disciplining for things that they shouldn't discipline. For that it is a conversation that this isn't something that they're doing evil or wicked. This is them just being a kid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not always assuming that they have wrong motives. Yeah but even though you do see the rebelliousness in them, you know, but it's still. It's figuring out. So foolishness versus childishness. Yes you know, is what how it said. And so, seeing a kid, are they just being a child? Are they being Doing things and not really understanding?
Speaker 2:Well, an example. Kids are running around having fun rough and tumble play and they break a TV.
Speaker 1:This happened to me, childish. I wanted to murder my child.
Speaker 2:And I was gonna spank the other ones for letting them happy, letting him do it, no, but it wasn't. It wasn't foolishness that he didn't mean to. They were up in the moment and and I saw it how he had a Lego block. They're all fighting around and we're encouraging it, laughing at them playing around in this big block. I've thrown in my brand new big screen TV. Just, it was destroyed. I was like, oh, and I looked at the other ones. I can't do anything.
Speaker 2:This is just my own anger that I had to bridle, and they knew like, oh my gosh, that wasn't supposed to happen, that was childishness, that wasn't him going. Hey, guess what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna break your TV, I'm gonna throw this at you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And when they were littler too. Sometimes you have to sit there with your hands in your lap folded because they, you know, biting each other or whatever. Oh yeah, we did have that.
Speaker 1:They either had to sit on their hands or had to fold their hands. Whatever would keep their hands from, like you know, punching their brothers and you know, ruffling around.
Speaker 2:We had to teach them self-control over their bodies, so I'm not saying default to spanking, or you know, of course there's verbal, there is timeouts, there are things like taking away privileges, taking away things that you know and we'll talk about privileges versus rights in the house a little bit later but yeah, taking away things, and so there's different forms, but sometimes it is it does call for the death penalty. Okay, so. So, putting your marriage over parenting. We talked about discipline and then, okay, now we're going into personal relationship with your kids, so we started the parenting talk with prioritize marriage over your kids. Then we're like okay, when you have your kids, of course you had to discipline them, but none of this is going to be effective if you don't have a personal relationship with your kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you want to read our passage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sorry, something just came to mind, though, that I want to cover back on discipline. It's kind of going in between both, and so I was thinking about like kind of getting things right in the house. So when you go in public, you know a lot of people are like why don't want to take my kids anywhere? Because they scream or they do this. So if you started in the home the discipline and the structure and teaching them self-control. When you go out, you don't have those problems.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when we deal with you know people that are in different programs, for example. You know if they're in a recovery program or whatever it might be. A lot of these people that are in these programs have a really hard time in society because they've never been given that structure. And they have a hard time sometimes in these programs because this is the most structure they've ever had in their life and it shows you. You know, if you had structure as a kid, it can prevent you from having these issues later on in life. So you think you're like, oh, I love my kid and I don't want to do anything. And you're like, no, you are actually setting your kids up for failure. And that's why it says if you don't discipline your kids, you're actually hating your kids.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, this discipline is not just getting your anger out on your kids. This is a loving thing to do for your kids and we should probably have said that too. Don't discipline out of anger, which is not always the easiest thing, because that's like anytime you're discipline your kid, it's they've done something that has warranted anger. Yeah, okay, and I will eating to that, or you know some useless stuff to do AND that they're still popular and banning you to go back the lines.
Speaker 1:I mean I just think, like the way God deals with us, he has certain rules right, but we have a relationship with him and we understand he's good, we understand he has our best interest at heart. We understand that he does listen to us, he does care, he does love, compassion, he does have grace right. So we understand all these things and so it's pleasing to us to serve him and to follow his rules. And if we do mess up, he's not like going to beat us over the head. You know it's like okay, this is a learning situation. So with the kids, you know, I feel it's the same way. When you just put all these rules and you're not, there's no communication, you're not explaining to them why you have these rules, and I think that it causes them to just be like why want to do it and why can't I? And you're just not talking to me and you're not like so they just end up wanting to rebel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I think that's kind of the story of the Old Testament is that they wanted the law, so he gave them 10. They didn't obey them. They wanted more, so he gave them more. Up to like what? 613 laws in the Old Testament and they kept disobeying all of them. And then when you go to the New Testament and they test Jesus, like Jesus, which is the greatest of the laws Love God, love people. Right, that's the greatest. The greatest is love God. And the second one is like I love people.
Speaker 2:This is all of the law can be summed up in these two things is based off of the relationship. If you have the rules but you don't have a relationship, you will go to rebellion, and that's how the human heart works. And that's the same thing with our kids. You just set all these ground rules. You hear these people that have rebelled like oh man, were you in a terrible home? I had a structure, I had structure, I had all these things and I had a very strict disciplinarian as a father or as a mother, or maybe both of them is an abusive household.
Speaker 1:Those strict.
Speaker 2:They grow up to rebel when they have all of these rules, but there's no relational trust there, like these rules are for my good, or I feel like you, just your rules are so that I don't annoy you, or so that I'm, like you know, fitting within this whatever paradigm in your life, as opposed to know these rules are for my good and I trust that because you love me and I feel the love, then of course it's going to lead to rebellion if you don't have that, and so building a personal relationship with your kids is so important. You can't have your marriage first and then discipline your kids and then have no relationship. That is a recipe for having rebellious children. And so so what are some of the things that we've done? Can us to kind of foster that relational connection with our kids?
Speaker 1:So, just like we have couch time for us, we have quality time with the kids. We do fun things. Obviously, we go places and do all kinds of things with our kids from little we talked about in previous episodes, where every time we go on, like when we have gone on vacations or just we just do it with our kids, like our kids are always with us and so. But we also have that quality time like, hey, let's all go sit in the backyard together as a family, let's play board games together as a family, let's talk, like I want to hear from you guys, what's on your mind, what are you thinking, what are you feeling, what are you going through lately. And so they talk to us about everything.
Speaker 2:And each of our kids have different ways of connecting to. So, like jet, he wants to watch stuff with me like hey daddy, like he loves enjoying videos with me. Like he likes funny things or just like cool anime, whatever it is. Like we'll just watch on his phone and I respond and I enjoy those things. Like that's his way of connecting, is like we're enjoying this thing together. Dash, he likes like a few things. He'll like a board games and he'll like sitting in the hot tub. That I want to sit in the hot tub and like, if I'm going, oh, can I come to. And even if he's just sitting there with like he loves doing that, chase is very much like he's going to play with his friends playing games, but when he wants to hang out he just wants to sit and talk.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like that's it. Like we, we hang out as a family. Like Saturday is typically family day. We always got to do something together as family, but we also have those like one off connections with our kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, one of the things that I used to do and it's been harder as they've grown older, especially with school, and not everybody can do this, I get I'm very privileged to own a business, so I had a little, a lot of freedom and flexibility, but I would take my. I have three boys and so I'd call them dudes days, and so for dudes days and this was, I think, super pivotal in their early childhood development is I would take one kid out, and so today's your dudes day, jet. Today's your dudes day, chase. Today's your dudes day, dash. And I would do two things I just go spend time with him and take him to lunch, and that's it.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, you know, if I had the money, we buy him a toy or something, but we just did like whatever, and it was only about sometimes it was two hours, sometimes it's an hour, but it was there and they always looked forward to it. This is like, oh, it's my dudes day, no, and they would fight. You know whose dudes day is it? But to have that one on one connection, and those are the times that I was able to, you know, invest in not only teaching them but also asking them questions, helping them discover their identity, helping them to be proud of their family identity and building that one on one connection. And then they would do the same thing.
Speaker 1:Well, you would always say the kids are a direct reflection on the family too I know we're going to get into the spiritual talk so I won't go into that, but yeah, so what else do we have here?
Speaker 2:So personal relationship with your kids, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I think we already kind of kept on that and that clear, clearly communicate your boundaries and expectations. I think that kind of goes under the discipline.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it goes under this, but just because that's that rules without relationship and so you can't just set a rule. Sometimes like if a kid doesn't know why a rule exists, to communicate clearly why this rule exists, why it's for the good of the kid or why it's good for yeah, and you're right, it's not always discipline Like we have clear communication boundaries, expectations out of like dating now that they're getting older, so we have those conversations.
Speaker 1:They understand where we're coming from. We've had these like lengthy conversations.
Speaker 2:I might not agree with it, especially with Chase, who wants a girlfriend. I know I could have a girlfriend right now if you just let me.
Speaker 1:So we have, you know, clearly explained our boundaries and our expectations, and so, yeah, having those communication points.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and talking through it, using scripture as kind of the foundation for our four rules. And let's talk about this balancing being a friend to your kids without compromising your parenting.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I have fun with the kids. We do all kinds of things together and we have fun together. We enjoy just life together. But there are points where I'm like, hey, I'm still your mom, like don't disrespect me, don't think you could talk to me like you talked to your friends or your brothers, like I'm your mom.
Speaker 2:So I had like two sets of different types of friends when I was younger. I had like the. The friends Hold on. There's like loud music. Maybe we should pause. I don't know if we need a pause production. Can you hear that in your headphones? Can you tell them to? Yeah, you can hear it. Yeah tell them we're recording podcasts. Yeah, I'll do it with Grace.
Speaker 1:Well, it's off now.
Speaker 2:Just tell them, though, the music is outside. Yeah, there's a wide goodbye, okay.
Speaker 1:You have to edit all that. Yeah, I'll be our first edit, huh.
Speaker 2:So it's the first time we've had to actually cut a little bit. We're in the podcast studio in one of our local tenants. Here's bumping some hip-hop in the background.
Speaker 2:So anyway, we're talking about balancing being a friend to your kids without compromising your parenting. So like I feel like when I had Growing up, I had two sets of friends that were completely different. Like so one set of friends had like no relationship with their parents at all. Like the parents were completely out of touch, disconnected, had no idea what was going on. Right, I was kind of like that, like my parents, I mean, we're trying to be involved and no, but like you come from a broken home. It's hard to have your parents really like they had no idea what we were doing and so. And then you had the, the parents who, like knew everything that was going on and they were Encouraging our foolishness and our, our rebellion, and they were the cool parents and so we go to their house and do all of our mess by alcohol for you, my alcohol for you, be able to, you know, have that dance.
Speaker 1:Well, as long as they're drinking with, oh yeah, they're in a safe place.
Speaker 2:They're in our household, you know, and, and so it's like no, no, you're not a friend, you are a parent. You need to parent. If you think like, oh, no, I have such a great relationship with my kids, they love me, it's like no, they don't respect you. They respect you as they respect a friend, but they'll talk back to you. They're not gonna, you know, grow up to be like, hey, I really respected them as a parent. You're not a friend, you are a parent. It is your responsibility, your duty, to raise your kids, not to just be their friends. So you have to have a relationship, but you have to balance that out with also making sure that you're a friend. Like you don't talk to me this way, you don't do these things. We have these rules. I do set the standard and these are the things.
Speaker 1:Know that the kids are getting older. They have a lot of friends that come over Teenagers, and so they I'm like cool, you know I'm chill. They can like hang out, have a good time, like I, you know. Whatever, I'm cool. I'm cool, I'm I'm however, they know that I have boundaries, I have standards. They're they're not allowed to cuss in my house. They're not allowed to play music that has cussing in my house. So they you know what I mean. There's clear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're the cool mom, but you're not the cool mom. Yeah, exactly, in the sense that they like I'm chill. So I'm not like a naggy mom, Like what are you guys doing and don't do that Our kids friends have fun yeah they know that we're a good, safe environment Then, and but there's also that level of respect that we demand in the house and so balancing friends, being that relationship, but also being a parent. And then, this last point, they want you to talk a little bit about that having a safe place to communicate.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and I think we kind of already kept on a little bit Having those communication times where the kids can just be open. But I think it's this is more talking about being a safe place, so not just communicating, but a safe place that they feel that they can come to you with anything and they're not gonna immediately be shut down, they're not gonna be scolded. We're gonna be open to hearing what they have to say. Now there may be some correction in there, but we're going to be patient and loving and compassionate through it and hearing their feelings, because kids are, as they get older, as they're going through that change, they have hormones, they have raging hormones and feelings and they're coming out in all different ways and so you have to be and they want to know about sex and so you have to Be the you have to talk about those things. So as far as like this is, some of the stuff is gonna be for older kids when you have really little ones.
Speaker 2:It's not as complex, it's just oh yeah, but they know that they could talk to mom and dad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we have rules we have every stage. Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying little or kids don't really come to you with that complex of questions.
Speaker 2:Some of them do, but yeah, yeah well, but but you train them from those earliest ages. Because when you start to talk to your children and you ask them questions and they you're the way you respond to your kids they're being trained like, okay, don't talk about that to mom. I didn't like that response. And so you do train them from the earliest ages as like is this a safe place to communicate certain things? And so when you get, when they get older, and you're like, why don't my kids ever talk to me? It's because you shut them down, you discipline them any time you talk to. You know they weren't ever able to say anything. You, you know you never had that open and honest communication with the kids. And so I think you do train them from the earliest ages. Even though the conversations might not be so complex, the feelings and the emotions that they have with your responses to how they talk are doing something in their psyche.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it kind of goes to with like Also training them at a young age like, hey, I can't talk to my mom about anything, but I I've raised them to know. Like, hey, there is a level of respect, though, you're not gonna just come in and Scream and be crazy.
Speaker 2:So we talked about marriage putting your marriage before your parents and we talked about disciplining. We talked about building a relationship, a personal relationship, with your kids. But now I want to talk a little bit about training your kids to be members of society. One of the things that we've always said is that we're not raising children, we are raising adults, and I don't think many parents think about that. It says in Proverbs 20 to 6 direct your children in the right path and when they are older, they will not leave it. He's talking about Parenting with a generational perspective, like you're not just raising kids, but they're gonna be older one day and so they're gonna go into the next generation. They are the next generation and so raise them in the right path and when they're older, they won't leave it.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, we are not just raising kids for our own benefit. We're raising human beings that are adults and that are gonna be adults, that are gonna be members, your neighbors, potentially. They're gonna be the people that potentially work for you or for the companies like you. You talk about all the people who are entitled and the people that you can't stand. You talk about all these people that, oh man, this generally well, guess what they were raised to be. That way, they are products of how they have been raised, and so Training your kids to be adults, to be members of society. I have a lot to say about this, but you want to maybe take one of these points.
Speaker 1:Yeah, respect for others, looking at people, adults in the eyes and talking when adults. We've taught our kids very young. When someone says hi, you smile and you say hi back because you think when you go somewhere and anywhere and if I'm walking and I'm like hi and someone's just like you, oh no, that's rude, that's disrespectful People let their kids get away with that all the time.
Speaker 2:Oh, they're shy, sorry. No, you don't make apologies for that kid, we never did that Train the kids? No, the kids want to try to do that, like hey, hi, my name is in the kids, I'm like no, you shake their hand, you look them in the eye, you train them to do that.
Speaker 1:They need to learn respect, to be polite, to be respectful of other people.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I was getting loud on that.
Speaker 2:But we teach them. If someone is introducing themselves, you walk, you stand up and shake their hand. You know, sit down and like hi, how you doing? You look them in the eye, stand up, shake their hand.
Speaker 1:And Jet does that today. Well, we're always treating yeah, we're treating the kids. How to treat people, how we would want to be treated when we go places.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so many kids are so socially awkward right now because they don't know how to socialize. They haven't been trained how to socialize by their parents and parents just let kids get away with it and they talk it up to oh, they're just shy. You're speaking that over your kid. You're training your kid to say, okay, well, that's fine. Then I just want them.
Speaker 1:I'm okay, because I'm just shy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like, well, we don't know, you got to train them in the way they should go and so yeah, showing them respect.
Speaker 1:No interrupting. This is a big one for me. So that was a big one for him, this one's a big one for me. It is a pet peeve of mine. My kids know If I am talking to someone, if I am having a conversation, you do not come up and interrupt. That is very disrespectful.
Speaker 2:And she will say it just like that to the kid in front of the person. Yes, that is disrespectful.
Speaker 1:That is so rude. Do not do that, because I wouldn't do that to someone. Someone's talking. I'm going to wait patiently and I'm going to be like, oh, they're done now. Okay, I'm not going to be like, hey, hey, you know, like that's just, you got to train your kids the right way, and so I have taught. Chase is the only one that grasped this, though Jet just waits.
Speaker 2:He's dash, does it to the shoulder.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, he actually does. No, no, test sits next to me and he goes like this.
Speaker 2:He folks me, so say me and you're talking.
Speaker 1:Chase, if we're talking, chase will come up and he'll just rest his hand on my shoulder and he'll just stand there. He'll just, and I'll be like talking I know he's there now and he's wait. That means I'm waiting for you when you're done, and so I'll finish the conversation. I'll be like, okay, one second. Yes, chase, right, whenever we're done with that specific topic that we're in a conversation about, I don't make him wait for an hour on my shoulder. I think that's weird.
Speaker 2:I think it's so beneficial in interpersonal relationships because they're respecting that. You are in the midst of a conversation right now and you don't just get the right to interrupt because you feel like it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so this is just how we, as adults, are expecting, and we think it's common sense. But common sense isn't so common if you're not trained to have it. And so, yeah, having respect for others, looking them in the eye, standing up, shaking someone's hand you know, jet, he'll do that. He'll say hi, I'm jet, shake their hand, and then they're not going to interrupt us if we're talking to somebody else. You know, chase might do this. Maybe they'll just stand there or dash, apparently.
Speaker 1:That's just that Nudge you Pokes me and I'm just like yeah and that kind of goes with self-control.
Speaker 2:Is that what? You had in mind for self-control.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like giving it to your every your whim. Um, like as adults, we are expected. I think it's so funny like seeing some kids. Um, actually I was like man. What if we just rolled around the grocery store like that, as adults, or just through little temper tantrums, is like no, you can teach them, or everything's an emergency, everything's urgent.
Speaker 1:I need, I need right now, right this second. And so teaching them self-control in every situation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because when you are a member of society, when you are an adult, you're expected to have self-control, but it needs to be trained from the earliest ages.
Speaker 2:Um, this, this last one, uh, well, not last, second, last one. Um, allowing room for your kids to learn and balancing freedom with boundaries, and so we have something very particular in mind with this. So, allowing your kids to learn, so, like as an adult, I don't have anybody over my shoulder telling me don't do that, don't do this, yeah, and like, micro managing my every decision, I am expected to have a a a level of freedom and autonomy to make decisions and then be held accountable to my decisions and face the repercussions of those, whether they be good repercussions or bad. And so, as children being raised up, you really have to use wisdom in doing this, because it's not like there's a blanket answer for how to do this, but to have the general concept of like, I need to give my kids some freedom to figure things out for themselves Well, at the same time having boundaries to where it's like, well, I'm not going to let them fall off a cliff. You know what I mean. So like do you? Do you have any particular examples of that?
Speaker 1:So I mean, obviously, when they're little, you don't be like, oh, like, watch them touch the fire and let them learn. Like obvious, that's obvious. There's one way you gotta find out Now if I tell you don't touch that, don't touch that, don't touch that and you do that. I'm like well, they'll learn, you know. But outside of that, giving them freedoms, I think is what you're talking about to like going places with their friends or doing things as they get older, or even when they're little like giving them freedom.
Speaker 2:So you don't. You don't give someone complete, absolute autonomy, like we started, like letting our kids go.
Speaker 1:For example, leaving them home alone. That's a good one, so I started by walking to the store.
Speaker 2:Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I started leaving them home alone at a younger age.
Speaker 2:Like one years old. No, no, no.
Speaker 1:People are like oh my gosh, you're crazy, but I started by not one years old, but no no, like probably five, six, six years old.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and by leaving them, you're not leaving town.
Speaker 1:No so I'm getting there. So I started by just like hey, I'm going to run, I'm going to run just down the street. I'm going to run down the street and get gas and I'll be right back and then don't do this, don't like? You guys just sit here and so kind of giving them those times of seeing how they were going to do and mom's not going to be home for five minutes, for 10 minutes, you know for a while.
Speaker 2:And so it's not like she is like All right, hey, guess they're at a certain age. So I'm going to like leave the house for the night. We started out incrementally Like can I trust them for five minutes? Can I trust them for 10 minutes? Can I trust them for a 30 minute thing? Can I trust them for an hour? And so it's incrementally giving them that freedom and then saying, okay, well, what's happening? And then also like the same thing, kind of going around our neighborhood. It's versus in the front yard. Then it's kind of like down the street, and then they could go around the block. Then eventually they could walk to the store again.
Speaker 2:Depending on where you live and your circumstances and situations, you got to figure out what this looks like. But the same thing goes with your cell phone and with your. You know your ability to watch media, and so we don't give our kids a cell phone with complete, unbridled access to all content everywhere. You give them a level of freedom with some boundaries See how they do with those and then you can give them a little, a little bit more. And then and I think this ties into to the last point, which is helping them to understand what is a privilege versus what is a right, and so we give our kids a lot of freedom, a lot of flexibility and freedom to to make their decisions and be held accountable to those decisions.
Speaker 2:We'll talk about those. We give them very clear, set boundaries. Why? Because we're training them for adulthood. Because I don't have someone micromanaging, watching my every little move and telling me don't do this and that, and I and we have to to to let them be held accountable. But while they're living in our house, those certain freedoms that they have, it has to sometimes be reinstated that those are privileges, not rights. So I'll keep talking on this. My kids know that they have the right to a safe home. Like they will come, they will be provided for. It will be safe, they'll be provided for. They get a bed, they get food, everything else includes. So they get a roof, they get provision.
Speaker 1:They get food and clothes Everything that a normal family has the necessities.
Speaker 2:All of those things are rights that you have as being a member of this family. You have your provision taken care of, you have your safety, your security, you have all of the things that you need to live and to survive in a healthy and safe environment. That is your right, just by being virtue of being a part of this family. Your cell phone is not a right. Your TV time or entertainment, or even sleeping, you know, or like in your bedroom, you know, all of these things are not rights, they're privileges.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I'd ever take away a bedroom, but yeah, well, I think that's kind of going under, like certain kids are like well, we got to respect their privacy.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's insane.
Speaker 1:We can't go into the room without knocking. Well, I do knock on the jet-stor.
Speaker 2:I do because I ain't trying to see nothing that I don't want to see. That's all in there. Babies changing diapers.
Speaker 1:There's, yeah, standards, there's boundaries, but you know I can't go through their phone. That's their privacy. No, I'm their parent and it's my job to make sure that they are safe and they're not doing anything wrong.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, our kids would never say what are you doing going through my stuff, what are you doing going through my room? Like that is not vocabulary or verbiage our kids have at all in our house.
Speaker 1:No, I say phone, and they hand me their phones 100% and why?
Speaker 2:Because we give them a lot of flexibility and freedom, but they also know the boundaries and we could hold them accountable to those, and so very clearly stating the difference between privileges versus rights. Okay, so I think we've beaten that dead horse a little bit. So, personal relationship with your kids, training them to not just be kids but to be adults. And then the last thing is spiritual growth and discipleship of your children. Okay, so train them up in the way they should go, and when they're old they won't depart from it. Part of that is growing them spiritually. Part of our roles as parents is to have the spiritual growth and development to disciple our children, and so they want you to talk about just some of the ways that we've discipled or are continuing to disciple our kids, and maybe how that's changed from one set of ages to the next.
Speaker 1:Okay, so from very little. Obviously, praying over them was huge praying over our food, praying over them every single night when we would tuck them in for bed, I would pray over them and I would even sing over them. They loved that.
Speaker 2:They didn't like it so much when I did it.
Speaker 1:They would have me sing worship songs while they fell asleep. They just loved that and so I would do that. So just kind of. And then as they got a little bit older, we would watch. You know, there's obviously veggie tells and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:But I actually went through like this little book that was like scripture and it was applying to it's for little little kids and so it was really good. So I walked through like scriptures with them, very simple scriptures while they were little, praying with them, okay. And then as they got older, then it was like, okay, let's have, like, let's read like actual bigger context and let's discuss it. And I would actually have Bible studies with them, like let's go through the scriptures, let's break it down. What does this mean? What does this mean to you? How do you apply this? So we would, I would disciple them and we still pray together. Me and the kids pray and we go in a circle, so it's not just me praying, I've raised them to pray. So whenever we're in church, they are participating, they are praying, they are answering questions, they know the scripture, they pray their leaders you know.
Speaker 2:In that sense, yeah, one of the things that I was thinking about is that, you know, especially as it relates to a lot of the children's curriculum that's out there and the way children's ministry is done is they they try to focus on intellect and knowledge or actions doing.
Speaker 2:And so, like, hey, you need to learn Bible stories and then you need to do good things, and those are important things Like, of course, we read the Bible and we wanna teach them the stories and then we wanna teach them morals, but what is scientifically documenting now is what's more impactful on capturing an entire person is getting their heart, not just their intellect and telling them to do something, but to get to their heart. And so we really tried to make our personal walk with God real for the kids. Our relationship with God and this has to be a personal thing with you as a human being, as a Christian, as a married couple Like, is your relationship with God authentic? Because it's easy to teach moralism to kids? Don't do this. Do these things. These are good things. And then here's some Bible stories.
Speaker 1:And here's Can we just go to church on Sunday?
Speaker 2:No like we have deep conversations with our kids and show like this is how God is actively involved in our lives. Like guys, we were struggling with this and we prayed. Remember, look at how God showed up right, and so like that relational connection of like no, god is real. He's involved in our lives and we have opened in honest conversations with them about it and we do the things like we pray with them. But those prayers are not just like this reciting of words. We're really praying with our kids. We'll read them.
Speaker 1:Bible stories and we pray through our struggles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they're not With our kids, yeah.
Speaker 1:We're not just praying over superficial stuff. We're praying like, hey guys, we have this need, or we're struggling here, or I'm really emotional today.
Speaker 2:Let's pray through this stuff and it's not putting a burden on your kids, if you're, because there's a big difference.
Speaker 2:It's like oh man, like we have this word, like we have confidence and peace and faith in God. And so when we're praying and we're being open, we're allowing our kids to see God work in our lives, because they go oh my gosh, my parents were authentic, they were real, this, and then God showed up, and so there's no excuse for our kids to grow older and be like I didn't see God at all active in their life.
Speaker 1:I remember there was one instance where we me and the kids had been really praying for this certain project that Sean was trying to get, and we had been praying for like a week and then all of a sudden you had called me with the word that you would got it and I was like, guys, guess what? Dad got in there. We were like, yeah, we're all celebrating.
Speaker 2:Celebrate what God is doing in your life, and so spiritual growth and discipleship for me has more been relationally than intellectually. Candice is really good at all of it, like she's. You would, I for sure, especially now taking the lead on sitting the kids down. Reading Bible studies in the living room is very frequent, especially on the Saturday or a Sunday. We're all wake up and we have our coffee, we are on the couch and you open up the Bible and we start reading with the kids and we talk about it. So it's not just reading the Bible, we talk about it. What else do you have here? So pray together, read together, live it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, living it out, serving, being on mission together. Our kids serve at the church. So at a young age, what can you?
Speaker 2:do. Where do you wanna serve?
Speaker 1:Can you just assist in the children's? Can you just like? What can you do? Can you hand out flyers? Can you go to the mission and play game night with us? Now they're on the worship team and they do PowerPoint and dash. He's still little, so he's turning off the lights for us, turning down the lights when worship is going on, and then he turns them on and then he. So he's doing little things, so we're getting them involved in serving.
Speaker 2:He's teaching people how to be emotional based off of the lights in the room.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know, getting them just moving, that's good.
Speaker 2:The other thing is being an example, showing them how you repent and are not perfect. And so one of the things I forgot who told it to me, but it always stuck with me that, like your kids need to see you being a repenter, if you want your kids to repent, then they need to see it modeled, and it's been several times. Like your kids know you, they see the good, the bad and the ugly. And if they see not if, but when they see the ugly, you need to own it and you need to repent. And there's been several times. Like guys, I'm so sorry, Like I had repented to God. What I did in front of you or what I did to you, you know, if I disciplined out of anger, like what you did was wrong, but it did not require the way I responded, and God is convicting me of that and I'm really sorry, will you?
Speaker 1:forgive me and sometimes they don't even see the things Like for me. They don't see some of my struggle or where I've messed up, Like maybe I had responded to someone poorly.
Speaker 2:They see where you messed up.
Speaker 1:No, I'm saying in a certain situation where they haven't and it wasn't in front of them. I'll still like tell them hey guys, like this just happened, I ended up doing this. But you know what, like God checked me and I repented and he's restoring that situation, so I let them know. So they're like aware, like, oh, okay, like, so that was-.
Speaker 2:I don't want my kids to grow up and be like, if something happens you know, like if I'm in a conversation with you and I have an aunt, or like if I'm mad at somebody in typical relational situations, you're just gonna get my back and we're just talking crap on these people and everybody's tripping. But if they see us like you know what this altercation happened and I was in the wrong and I own it, and like you know what I mean. So whether they see you do it or not, you're like, hey, this happened and I actually handled it wrong. And we wanna train our kids to know that you're not always right, like you probably are getting things wrong a lot. And how do you know that? Because your parents have a model before you, like how they've taken ownership and accountability for their own actions, and so we definitely wanna be examples to them.
Speaker 2:Because you repenting I mean like if you first, john says that if you claim to be without sin, then you're a liar and the truth is in you. But if you confess your sins, god is faithful and just to forgive you and purify you from all unrighteousness. He's not gonna do that, or you're not gonna be purified unless you confess. And so teaching your kids to confess by being an example of someone who confesses their own sins. Okay, what else do we have here? Spiritual growth and discipline. So being an example, raising them in the Lord and on mission, making the faith of their own, that's huge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, the faith is their own. Their relationship with God is their own relationship with God. It's not because of us, Like obviously it's because of us, but in the sense that yeah, we have our part to play.
Speaker 2:For sure, God, we are so grateful for God's grace, who makes up for every area in which we fail. But, yeah, making them or not making them, but growing them to take ownership of their own faith, Us baptizing our kids was not my decision, it wasn't Candice's decision. We didn't tell them and like, hey, are you ready to get baptized yet? Are you ready? Are you ready? They came to us and said I want to be baptized and for me, being a pastor, I just really want to make sure, like you're not just doing this because I'm telling you right, Like you know.
Speaker 2:No, no, I want to do this and I'd be if it was anybody else. I'd be like, tell me why. All right, let's do it. But for the kids I'm interrogating them a little bit more and it was really like precious, because I got to baptize all three of my kids and for all three of them it was their decision. Coming to me, they were able to articulate the gospel for themselves, and so they can never point back and be like, well, I only got baptized and they're only made a decision to follow Christ because my parents did.
Speaker 2:It's like no, no, that was their decision. They owned it for themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we of course, pushed them in the right direction. We were not going to say like I don't know what truth is, like hey, we can't unsee what God has done. We know this to be true, but we definitely encourage our kids to make it their own decision. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:Anything else before we close that babe, I think the only thing I wanted to kind of talk about just briefly, if you could talk into it, is I see a lot of parents that allow their kids to kind of be like wild and it's like well, it's just the way they are expressing themselves and I don't want to shut that down and I want them to be able to just express themselves fully and not hinder that creativity or whatever.
Speaker 2:At what point I honestly don't feel like I did this great. I feel like I did the opposite of that, just in hindsight. Obviously, our kids are very expressive and they're able to do that now. So if there's one extreme of parents just letting their kids do whatever the heck they want, because that's just self-expression, and the other extreme is like shutting everything down and not letting their kids do anything and find themselves, it's not like I was that extreme, but if there was like a middle, I'd probably be aired maybe a few steps on this side, rather than just letting them do everything. Don't punish the childishness, punish the foolishness. Let them self-express, but if that self-expression goes to a sinful extreme, to where they're throwing tantrums, they're not listening to you, they're doing things that are disruptive. I've seen kids pick things up and throw it at people's heads, you know, and like oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:I have a sensory issue with screaming.
Speaker 2:Oh man, that me too. I just past Mac, oh sorry.
Speaker 1:I don't know why, but I think it's like it's a sensory thing, Sensory sensitivity yeah, that's a thing. Because when the kids would like, my kids never like. I wouldn't allow it. Like, if they tried, I'd be like no, we don't do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but when, especially when they're little kids they're exploring the world around them and they're making sense of the world and they're getting into mud and they're making it?
Speaker 1:But however I did, let them do that stuff I let them play in mud. I let them. I would put out like all this paper everywhere and just get them paint, paint and just have fun.
Speaker 2:And they would just paint.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there was like some type of structure, but it was also trying to find a way to paint, yeah, so I think that's kind of goes to raising your kids up to their own individual bent.
Speaker 2:It's not snuffing the wonder and the childhood, their childhood, out of them, but at the same time bridling it with some clear boundaries and like, oh no, this is okay, but this is not okay, and so it's just. It's definitely a wisdom thing. Every child is a little bit different. It's hard to give a blanket statement on it, but I think just knowing these, these general guidelines of there's a difference between childishness and foolishness. There's a difference between having rules without relationship. You know, all of these things are tools that you get out to your belt, to where, when you apply them all, you can have perfect children like we do. Oh no, that's not perfect parenting like us.
Speaker 2:So so I think, just kind of summarizing again the main points, put your marriage over your parenting. Not to say that your parenting is not important is extremely important, but one of the best gifts that you could give your kids is the safety and security knowing that mom and dad love each other. With that being said, you have to incorporate discipline. Not everything deserves the death penalty. You have different stages of discipline for different levels of wrongdoing. Not everything even requires discipline.
Speaker 2:There's foolishness, where they're just blatantly disrespectful, and there is the sinful nature coming out of them, and then there's just childishness. This is just things, just kids being themselves and knowing the difference and responding accordingly. But if they continue on that path of foolishness, then the rod of discipline will drive it far from them. So you do need a discipline, but you have to make sure that you balance out your discipline with having a relationship with your kids. Rules without relationship, but really highlighting the active work of the Holy Spirit in our lives. And so, that being said, babe, you want me to put you on the spot and ask you to pray us out.
Speaker 1:I'm going to pray us out on this episode. What are?
Speaker 2:we, episode nine parenting. Heavenly Father, I just pray for all of the parents that might be listening to this. I pray that whatever was said that was good, that needs to be applied to whoever's listening. I pray that they would hold fast to that and they would apply to the parenting. I pray that nobody's going to be living in condemnation or judgment if they are parents of older kids and they feel like man. I've really failed in these areas. I pray that there's going to be no judgment or condemnation, but you could allow them to just pick up where they are and to redeem the time, father God, and to apply whatever the tools are that they need to to better their parenting. Today, lord, we thank you for the blessing of our children and I do pray, father, that you would help us give Candice and I, as well as the listeners, wisdom to raise our children up in the way that they should go, so that when they're older they will not depart from it. We pray these things in Jesus' name, amen, amen.